充足裝備 VS 行山經驗

Hong Kong Hiking Web: 討論組 Forum: 充足裝備 VS 行山經驗
   By Chan Tai Man on Thursday, October 29, 2009 - 8:02 am:  Edit Posted From: 221.127.100.215

In HK, habits are of ways of spending for equipment in which expensive tools represent profession, and vice versa.

It's a endless debate. A person's basic instinct is everything. However, it's sad that it's disappearing nowadays, just like common sense.

   By samko on Monday, March 30, 2009 - 11:00 am:  Edit Posted From: 219.73.49.115

這個網頁很有參考的價值

   By 求知 on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 5:40 pm:  Edit

如果有齊充足裝備及行山經驗當然係最完美的行山者,大家俾o的意見?

   By Sundance on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 10:27 am:  Edit

充足裝備 Vs 行山經驗?
Not sure what you want to know.

   By 求知 on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 11:49 am:  Edit

有些擁有貴價裝備者看不起一般裝備的行山者。
行山是一種興趣及運動,裝備因經驗累積而更換,一開始買一批名牌行山裝備,不等於是高級行山者!

   By Sundance on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 2:12 pm:  Edit

<行山殃一種興趣及鉉動{裝備因經驗累積而更換{一開始鈔一批安皖行山裝備{不等於殃高級行山者>

我完全同意您說的。實際上,在香港行山只需要非常簡單的裝備,一對舒適的鞋,一個輕便簡單的背包載必要的食物和水,風/雨衣,指南針,地圖,急救工具等。名牌不名牌實在不重要。行山的目的主要是享受大自然,不是欣賞貴價裝備!
我個人經驗是:帶裝備更多,享受大自然機會更小!
有一個住在我區的人名叫Craig Childs,他經常一個人行出沙漠野外1-2個月,只帶一大袋堅果和乾果子,晚上露天睡在沒有帳篷的睡袋,渴時他知道哪裡有水。他出版了3本書:"The Secret Knowledge of Water", "Soul of Nowhere", 和"The Way Out"。我特別推薦是第一和第二本給任何對冒險/行山有興趣的。

   By Sundance on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 2:24 pm:  Edit

Here's an excerpt from "Soul of Nowhere" by Craig Childs:
http://www.hachettebookgroupusa.com/books/23/0316735884/chapter_excerpt17711.html

   By 無名字 on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 7:25 pm:  Edit

That's good reading, Sundance. There's something special in Craig's book: how should I put it? Poetic? I am not sure. It's a lot more than that. I thought Craig was some kind of a "minimalist". I was wrong. I think I know why you chose Arizona.

Back to gear. Less is better. Trouble is: so many in this (once) Fragrant Harbour are now so 'addicted' to "gear". To them "gear" is the end rather than the means.

Alas, we can no longer do something like what Craig does over there. It simply is NOT safe any more to roam the hills alone here.

   By PoP on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 8:51 pm:  Edit

上山,最重要的是能夠平安下山。

裝備、經驗(技巧)與活動安全是不可分割的。

1. 裝備的重要性是對應客觀環境的惡劣程度。
2. 裝備越是精良、就越需要正確運用裝備的能力。
3. 運用裝備的失效率、遠比發揮技巧的失誤機會高!

對應本地山野的客觀環境,裝備的重要性確實不高。
走四大徑,一袋足夠的糧水+慬慎的心態已經足夠。裝備的作用,不過是讓人更舒適而矣!

   By 自遊行 on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 12:48 am:  Edit

安全 = 訓練 + 經驗 + 裝備
我個人認為經驗佔60%,訓練及裝備各佔20%。

   By PoP on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 1:36 am:  Edit

安全不是數學程式,要視乎最弱的一環 – 人的因素…

介紹一篇難得氣氛良好的、關於安全(單車)的討論:
http://www.doyouhike.net/forum/204704,0,0,1.html

   By 求知 on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 10:06 am:  Edit

GPS,多功能行山手表,名牌背囊,貴價電筒,防紫外線透氣外衣,高價快乾褲,強調約二千元的行山鞋,以上裝備如果是一位熱衷行山的旅遊者配置,是正常不過,但不能說任何人帶著以上裝備就自視為資深行山者,以為有充裕裝備什麼險境都可以去闖,往往忽略別人的善意提醒,由淺入深多參與,多學習,任何意外沒有人願意見到,去險境會很要小心,但意外發生的地點通常不是我們所恐懼那位置!

﹝GPS﹞,﹝多功能行山手表﹞,在網上看到有人詢問使用方法,是正確態度,買了不懂用又不學習使用者,我知道有這樣的人,所以如果只是擁有裝備,而無經驗又不能活用裝備,救援服務正是為他們而設!

行山需要多行上山,裝備要帶上山上使用,不是買了等於懂得了。

   By Sundance on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 12:23 pm:  Edit

求知, 您提出的實在是一個正確的觀點,我完全同意。我希望有更多人會同意和了解您的說法.

無名字, Indeed there is something special about Craig's writing. Perhaps it’s his ability to put into words keen observations sharpened by spending weeks in the wilderness. He could not have developed such keen senses if he had spent much of his time looking at his fancy camping gears.

>"gear" is the end rather than the means<
I once knew a professional photographer who gave photography workshops but would not allow students to bring their cameras. He asked them to imagine ‘photographing’ with their eyes WITHOUT using a camera. The purpose was to train their eyes to really see and choose the scenes rather than to fiddle with fancy camera controls. At the end of these workshops, his students’ photographs dramatically improved! This may be a good lesson for hikers. Some of us spend so much time/money on fancy equipment we forget how to experience nature.

>It simply is NOT safe any more to roam the hills alone here.<
It's sad that there are more risks going out in Hong Kong than roaming in the desert. I wonder though whether you have a higher chance of running into I.I. than say stepping on a rattle snake over here. But then rattle snakes won’t chase you either, thanks god!

   By 阿二閒人 on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 1:00 pm:  Edit

POP
非常好!一貼解千仇.

   By 無名字 on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 5:02 pm:  Edit

"I wonder though whether you have a higher chance of running into I.I. than say stepping on a rattle snake over here. But then rattle snakes won’t chase you either, thanks god!"

First, an update on 'Illegal Immigrants'. You need one, I am afraid. People from across the border are now free to come to the Fragrant Harbour on a permit, either as LEGAL immigrants or visitors. ILLEGAL immigrants are now few and far between. The term 'I.I' has served its useful purpose. You know something? These visitors are now all over the place, including the countryside here. One of their favourite pastime (trade?) is to look for trees of value, notably 羅漢松 and 香木, as these sell for good money in their homeland. When they do find some, they'll cut them and bring them home. Another favourite is to ROB. Many here have fallen victim to them IN THE COUNTRYSIDE. Many of these visitors are "minimalists' in the true sense: they sleep in the hills with nothing other than a PE sheet over their heads, and lie in ambush, for days if not weeks, for their 'preys'.

Now to 'chances' of meeting them. In my personal experience, I met (not necessarily face to face) these "visitors" more than I did with snakes!

   By Sundance on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 4:19 am:  Edit

Thanks for the update, 無名字. From what you said, the idyllic Hong Kong in my memory is long gone. Rattle snakes suddenly don't look very menacing by comparison!

   By danny on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 6:07 pm:  Edit

"GPS,多功能行山手表,名牌背囊,貴價電筒,防紫外線透氣外衣,高價快乾褲,強調約二千元的行山鞋,以上裝備如果是一位熱衷行山的旅遊者配置,是正常不過,但不能說任何人帶著以上裝備就自視為資深行山者"

有人會這樣說嗎???有人會因擁有高價裝備就自視為資深行山者嗎???
抑或是求知兄你個人的想法???

   By 求知 on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 8:51 pm:  Edit

有!裝備重保持得好好!到有新產品出時,就問人有冇興趣讓被人,再唔得就放上網賣左然後補些錢去買新產品!

   By danny on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 10:03 pm:  Edit

求知兄所說的只是個別例子而已
擁有高價裝備並沒有問題, 只是個人喜好

同樣地, 有些人沒有高價裝備, 也會自視為資深行山者的

問題是心態, 而不在於擁有什麼

   By PoP on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 11:22 pm:  Edit

阿二閒人

> POP
非常好!一貼解千仇.

願聞其詳

   By 阿二閒人 on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 10:41 am:  Edit

POP

因過往圈中每有嚴重的山難事故發生,不同立場的人因應自己的觀點作用非理的討論漫罵怎致作出人身攻擊.又有人把行友的個人責任全數歸於領隊.感覺困或.看過(水上飄)言論中懇理性富分析力,正如你所講>難得氣氛良好的.有感而發而己.

   By PoP on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 3:57 pm:  Edit

阿二閒人

人以群分,水往低流。
本地山網重點不在推廣正確戶外運動理念知識,奈何?

都是成年人,個人的責任還是要自負… 領隊的額外責任是做好行程的安全管理。


求知, Danny

關於裝備的討論,沒完沒了都不能得出主流意見…
只要抱著慬慎的心態,靚裝備、無裝備同行就是各有各精彩!

   By messhong on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 10:23 pm:  Edit

pop 兄,你說得很對.
本地山網既討論總離不開"香港點解要著gore tex"
"有無須要著乳絨" "用靚裝備有無須要".......
然後就會下個結論,用靚裝備等如扮野.
高手唔洗用靚裝備......

這只能說香港人 "憎人富貴厭人窮"


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